Curse

NinjaKai · Aug 04, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I've been playing Guild Wars since february 06. And in that time I have seldom seen smiting monks. I myself am a smiting monk. But generally my curiosity is why are smiting monks not so commonly seen?

Kit Engel · Aug 04, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

My opinion is that smiting, though each skill can be individually powerful, doesn't really work well with either itself or most other skills (excepting AoE smiting, but that suffers scatter in PVE). There aren't many interesting smiting skill combos or anything that I'm aware of, so you're pretty much just as well tossing your favorite smites onto your skillbar and hitting them as they recharge...

Sli Ander · Aug 04, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Mainly because of the prejudice towards them. Groups only what healers or protect monks. I have been a smiter through all but the last missions, grabbing henchies as I went. On the Ring of fire and Ascension missions I had to go healer for any hope of ever getting through them with a random group.

Also we honestly don't do great damage with one campaign alone, except against undead. I've just gotten some factions smites and with the two campaigns I now have a rather good bar of smites. Hopefully nightfall will have an army of undead or something, which will allow smiters(not 55's) to make a comeback.

/edit Most of our best damage is dot as well, the most single hit smite I have does around 100. Warriors and other classes can beat that by a decent margin with the right skills.

sno · Aug 04, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Smite could be great in pve if it wasn't for aoe scatter. You'd still run into 80-90% of pve scrubs that don't understand that not all monks are healers though.

NinjaKai · Aug 04, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kit Engel

My opinion is that smiting, though each skill can be individually powerful, doesn't really work well with either itself or most other skills (excepting AoE smiting, but that suffers scatter in PVE). There aren't many interesting smiting skill combos or anything that I'm aware of, so you're pretty much just as well tossing your favorite smites onto your skillbar and hitting them as they recharge...

We differ on opinion here I have an Mo/E and i've got some pretty useful combos that have worked well. You just have to be creative and think outside the cookie cutter circle.

Blame the Monks · Aug 04, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I often run this hybrid smite/heal monk in PvE:

11+1+3 smite
9+1 heal
8+1 prot
8+1 divine

20% longer enchants, your choice of armor

AoE, rof, gaurdian, vig spirit, goh, seed or smite hex, baths or rebirth, ZF

At first glance, the healing might seem low, but it is more than enough in pve. The vig + seed + fof/gaurd spam will keep your tanks alive and well and goh can clean up any spikes. You can fill the role of a basic healer while doing significant damage along the way. The scatter is a lot less of a big deal than you may think. Just make sure the other monk has heal party and hex/condition control. I haven't tried this in any of the elite missions, but it can handle the titans missions, ring of fire, arborstone, gayla hatchery, and so on just fine. The only thing I ever struggled against was those damn mursatt towers and their enchant removal.

In any event, I have enjoyed this as an alternative to traditional healing and thought I would share.

.neuronster. · Aug 04, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Smiting is limited as a whole. No one in their right mind uses the direct attack skills like Banish and aside from ZF, Smite Hex, Balth's Aura, Symbol of Wrath, and Shield of Judgement, the smite line is kind of...useless. The aforementioned skills aren't even that useful for PvE due to scatter and such.

Sli Ander · Aug 04, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by .neuronster.

Smiting is limited as a whole. No one in their right mind uses the direct attack skills like Banish and aside from ZF, Smite Hex, Balth's Aura, Symbol of Wrath, and Shield of Judgement, the smite line is kind of...useless. The aforementioned skills aren't even that useful for PvE due to scatter and such.

I guess I must be crazy, oh well, the gods are crazy too...

My usual build (to bring henchies) is Healing Breeze, Rebirth ,Bane Signet, Banish Shield of judgement/signet of judgement, Charm/comfort animal, and Balthazar's aura. It's limited. But thanks to the dups and new elites from factions, I've been experimenting with new solo smite builds and ones to use with my cat.

Its not useless by any means. Direct damage isn't everything, and playing a smite monk has taught me not to be a Leeroy Jenkins. I've learned not just to do damage, but how to pull, how to be sneaky enough not to need to fight. Its a very interesting experience. Also, scatter is sometimes a good thing. When they scatter it gives you a chance to toss in a quick heal spell before the mob comes back. Playing a smite monk against live creatures(as opposed to undead) is sort of like playing an assassin. You've got to play smart, pick and choose your targets instead of just charging in. Making the situation go to your advantage is more essential than to a tank or ele, where you have more leeway in your attacks.
Thats a wierd thought: Assassins and monks, not quite tanks, not quite damage dealing casters....we're kinda in the middle cause we're situationally dependent.

NinjaKai · Aug 04, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

I guess I must be crazy, oh well, the gods are crazy too...

By his logic we're both of our trolly.

achilles ankle · Aug 04, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

i think the reason ppl dont use/want smite is the dmg is flat out what it says on the skill. If you are not fighting undead(which take double dmg) then u do the exact dmg that it says on the skills. many many other skills have a margin of dmg they do according to the enemies armor/resistances/ enchants and stuff like that. but then again it is pretty much the same thing as blood necros..idk lol just my thoughts but i thnk ppl want healers/prot monks other than smiters.

NinjaKai · Aug 04, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by achilles ankle

i think the reason ppl dont use/want smite is the dmg is flat out what it says on the skill. If you are not fighting undead(which take double dmg) then u do the exact dmg that it says on the skills. many many other skills have a margin of dmg they do according to the enemies armor/resistances/ enchants and stuff like that. but then again it is pretty much the same thing as blood necros..idk lol just my thoughts but i thnk ppl want healers/prot monks other than smiters.

In the end I say screw what other people want. If I want to be a smiter i'll be a smiter. You can be far more creative if you exist outside the circle of normality.

Nessaja · Aug 05, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Smiters seem really good on the condition that the enemy is attacking.

A problem would be energy management. Sure they can do some spike damage, one that ignores armor, I doubt it's more effective then a bloodspike damage wise, but lets say it is, they still don't have any energy management. Perhaps I just don't know how it works but thats how it would seem. I mean, when I look at the cooldowns, it's all more then 10 seconds, except one of the skills which costs 10 energy with a 2 second cooldown (word of censure), so DPS wise it's definatly worse when you compare it to a necro blood build. But maybe it spikes better. On the other hand, the only DPS spell smiting has is an elite, so where do you get your energy management from?

What would you use, mantra of recovery or something? Perhaps give an outline of skills that you take as a pure smiter, just bane signet banish and signet of judgement/shield of judgement really isnt what I would see as a pure smiter.

Also, another thing to consider, is a >for instance< Elementalist not much better at smiting because they have endless energy with 16 in energy storage and ether prodigy.

I'm really just ranting and thinking out loud now, I havent ever tried a smite monk, I actually don't even have a monk but the concept is interesting.

Would you go:

Signet of Judgement {Elite}
Bane Signet
Holy Strike
Stonesoul Strike
Spear of Light
Smite
Bonetti's Defense
Balthazar's Spirit

(??)

I really don't see it working another way... because the Energy costs are huge, the cooldowns are.. long aswell, I suppose. And the only way of getting energy management other then Bonetti/Balth Spirit is an elite (MoR, OoB).

If you want to talk about how effective a subclass is it's best to have a skill layout so everyone talks about the same thing.

Sli Ander · Aug 05, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessaja

Smiters seem really good on the condition that the enemy is attacking.

A problem would be energy management. Sure they can do some spike damage, one that ignores armor, I doubt it's more effective then a bloodspike damage wise, but lets say it is, they still don't have any energy management. Perhaps I just don't know how it works but thats how it would seem. I mean, when I look at the cooldowns, it's all more then 10 seconds, except one of the skills which costs 10 energy with a 2 second cooldown (word of censure), so DPS wise it's definatly worse when you compare it to a necro blood build. But maybe it spikes better. On the other hand, the only DPS spell smiting has is an elite, so where do you get your energy management from?

What would you use, mantra of recovery or something? Perhaps give an outline of skills that you take as a pure smiter, just bane signet banish and signet of judgement/shield of judgement really isnt what I would see as a pure smiter.

Also, another thing to consider, is a >for instance< Elementalist not much better at smiting because they have endless energy with 16 in energy storage and ether prodigy.

I'm really just ranting and thinking out loud now, I havent ever tried a smite monk, I actually don't even have a monk but the concept is interesting.

Would you go:

Signet of Judgement {Elite}
Bane Signet
Holy Strike
Stonesoul Strike
Spear of Light
Smite
Bonetti's Defense
Balthazar's Spirit

(??)

I really don't see it working another way... because the Energy costs are huge, the cooldowns are.. long aswell, I suppose. And the only way of getting energy management other then Bonetti/Balth Spirit is an elite (MoR, OoB).

If you want to talk about how effective a subclass is it's best to have a skill layout so everyone talks about the same thing.

You're leaving out certain things which, since you haven't played a monk, you wouldn't notice. Most smite builds are NOT 'pure'. the build you created left out any healing abilities to compensate damage taken. Also there are a couple of smiting spells which you didn't know about(probably) since you mentioned dps. I'm not good at these abbreviations but dps is the same as dot, correct? If thats true then don't forget Balthazars Aura. It does damage for a good ten seconds.

But the main thing is that smiting is so often overlooked, so we have less direct damage spells to use. Factions provided a few, but since we have less armor and less direct damage from our spells we have to learn to effectively use our subclasses. Some use an Elementalist sub class to make them harder to hit, provide extra attack or armor. I use my cat to carry Balthazars aura into a crowd of enemies, to keep them at bay while I kite around them to do more damage while they are preoccupied. Its all in how you use what you've got, and everybody does it differently.

/edit Concerning energy management, its all about how and when you use your skills. Certain elementalist skills help with this, but that just the same as any Class: Use what you've got and use it to great effect.

Nessaja · Aug 05, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

If you're going to heal aswell you won't have any energy at all! I mean, looking at the smiting skills, they cost a lot of energy, I mean, you can try to be a jack of all trades, but isnt it better to do one thing very good. From personal experience, I'd rather excel at one thing damage-snaring-protecting-healing-tanking-interrupting then doing everything at the same time.

What I mean with DPS is a constant damage flow, damage per second. While Balthazar's DOES have high DPS in theory, by far not all the waves of damage do their damage, last time I tried it, enemies just instantly run away from it. What I really mean to say is, how much damage can a smite monk do in a timespan of 30 seconds, or even a minute. It seems extremely low when looking at the numbers.

As for balthazars aura though.. like, I guess that works, but how does that compare to an elementalist, for instance, or even a minion master/SS necro.

Sli Ander · Aug 07, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessaja

If you're going to heal aswell you won't have any energy at all! I mean, looking at the smiting skills, they cost a lot of energy, I mean, you can try to be a jack of all trades, but isnt it better to do one thing very good. From personal experience, I'd rather excel at one thing damage-snaring-protecting-healing-tanking-interrupting then doing everything at the same time.

What I mean with DPS is a constant damage flow, damage per second. While Balthazar's DOES have high DPS in theory, by far not all the waves of damage do their damage, last time I tried it, enemies just instantly run away from it. What I really mean to say is, how much damage can a smite monk do in a timespan of 30 seconds, or even a minute. It seems extremely low when looking at the numbers.

As for balthazars aura though.. like, I guess that works, but how does that compare to an elementalist, for instance, or even a minion master/SS necro.

It all depends on how you play it, but yes, we have to lowest dps. We're built to have awesome healing abilities, but can't dish out too much.
This is my build:
Healing breeze
rebirth
bane signet
banish
Shield of judgement
charm animal
comfort animal
Balthazar's Aura.
This isn't a healing build, nor is it the pure smite I'm testing. It's good for soloing undead, and henching. I toss the most in Smiting, and keep healing, divine favor, and beast mastery equal. I leave off beast mastery by mistake sometimes, but I'm doing the most damage anyway, so it doesn't usually matter.
The thing about this build(and its kept me alive so far) is that my pet acts like a mini tank and keeps the baddies away. I aggro, he runs in while I'm tossing B's Aura on him. If they run away from him, or get scared by B's Aura and come at me, then I toss on SoJ. My cat will always focus on a baddie until he's dead or I switch to another target for longer than 3-5 seconds. Henchies help out and I do the target selection. It's not the greatest damage dealing build in the world, but that cat lasts longer than the henchies. And if he doesn't its cause he's considered more of a threat by the mobs than the henchies.
And for my testing of the smiting build, I still keep a heal and a protection in the bar. Then energy management is simply a matter of which order I push the buttons, taking into account the recharge times. A lot of wierd builds work just because the user has been using it sooo long. Thats why it works for me.

Merlin Munk · Aug 08, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Hi there fellow smiter!

I play smite just as often as I play heal or prot, u need too have some variations as monk. Just healing can get boring. Smiteing has long recharge and high cost simply cause u deal armour ignoreing damage. I play THK alot and Jades and Summits have heavy armour, which means my damage is perfect for spikeing them, While warrior finish them of. Sure it is high recharge but most skills are recharged inbetween the battles, atleast mine are.

Anyway This is my build:

Smite 16
Divine favor 15

Banish
Smite
Spear of light
Signet of judgement
Smite hex
Signet of devotion
Watchful spirit
Resurrect

Thats my build u might like it or not, thats up too u

Merlin Munk